José Mourinho on Trusting Players, Breaking Rules and Building Winning Teams

Yevhen Krazhan: So, José, thank you for making it today with us.

José Mourinho: My pleasure.

Yevhen Krazhan: It’s our great honor and great pleasure to have you with us.

José Mourinho: Thank you.

Yevhen Krazhan: So, since we are in Madrid, this is probably your maybe even second hometown, and you’re back to Real Madrid since recently. Can you tell us a little bit why you come back and what is the story about?

José Mourinho: I come back because the club wanted me to come back, but I think also the way the club approached me. I left Real Madrid in 2013, I think, and since then we were always close. I left on great terms with the club, the president, and the board of directors. So we were always close.

You know, in the end of last season, after two seasons where the biggest club in the world didn’t have the best results and the best atmosphere, and also kind of a little divorce with the fans. The club contacted me and told me, We know you; you know us; you know the club; you know the culture; you know the people. We know the way you work. We want you to rebuild. We need you. We need you to rebuild. We need you to start again an amazing decade that the club had. And we need you, we need a person with your. With your profile.

I was happy in Benfica. I was happy in Portugal. I left my country so many years ago that when I went back to Benfica, I was fine. But then Real Madrid is Real Madrid. Everybody at the club understood that it was a great opportunity for me to be back. So again, we left Portugal in good terms and I couldn’t be happier and I couldn’t have more motivation than I have.

Yevhen Krazhan: And speaking of Portugal, this is your home country, motherland, as we say. Next month, or actually end of September, we’re going with a big conference to Lisbon again, since it’s your home country, maybe to our viewers and wonderful followers, maybe you have some good recommendations as the native Portuguese, where to go, maybe some non touristic locations.

José Mourinho: You know, Portugal, I used to say that is a small, huge country. Small because the surface area is small. Small because we are around 10 million in the country, but huge because it’s a great country, not just a beautiful country. It’s a great country with a lot of talents in different areas. We love to open our arms to foreign people. So normally foreign people go to Portugal and they feel wanted, they feel respected. So it’s a great opportunity. If it is in Lisbon. Lisbon around Lisbon. And Lisbon is an amazing place. If you go up north to Porto, Porto is different than Lisbon, but also an absolutely beautiful city and great areas in the north of Porto. So Portugal is a great small country. And if you are two days, you will enjoy. If you are 20 days, you will still enjoy, because there is so much to enjoy in Portugal.

Yevhen Krazhan: You already touched this topic that you were invited back to Real Madrid because of the strong bond with the club. But what is this, you know, ideal partner for you? You have come across many different situations with players, with investors, with the clubs.

José Mourinho: You know, I like reality. I don’t like a defensive partnership where the targets are very low, where the targets are just playing safe. I like to play big, but I like reality. One of the things I felt when I was working in some clubs was not realistic. 

I want to go above the targets. I don’t want the targets to be low, but I want the targets to be realistic. And I felt that because I’ve been so successful with big targets during my career, I felt that at some point people was looking at me and thinking, just because of him, we can establish crazy targets. And there are no miracles in football, and I believe there are no miracles in any other area. You know, there is talent, there is teamwork, there is ambitions, there is empathy. But you must play with ambition, but with realistic ambitions. And Real Madrid is the kind of place where the targets are, of course, the biggest ones. But at the same time, the talent that you have at disposal, the organization you have at the disposal, are also related to this kind of.

Yevhen Krazhan: So, Jose, football is one of the oldest games, but still people love it and probably popularity even grows.

José Mourinho: So please don’t change it too much. I’m scared of it because you start saying it’s an old game and people still love it.

Yevhen Krazhan: Exactly.

José Mourinho: Don’t change it too much. Give some little touches. Approach football to the new generations. Approach football to use the new technologies to make football modern and with credibility. But when the thing looks perfect, don’t change it too much, because maybe you destroy a great product.

Yevhen Krazhan: So maybe for you as a coach, it still has a little bit of mysteries, a little bit of maybe some lessons that it still gives to you, or maybe some inspiration going forward.

José Mourinho: Every day I’m learning. I’m learning from the difficult moments. I’m learning from the people I work with, especially the players, and the fact that the majority of the things are deja vu for me, because so many years at a high level, things go, go, go. And it looks like it’s deja vu. Oh, this happened to me before. Oh, that happened to me before. But at the same time, the beauty of football is also unpredictability.

Yevhen Krazhan: It’s still a game.

José Mourinho: It’s still a game. It’s still a game. And in the end, the 90 minutes of the game are a consequence of many hours during the week where you are working for these 90 minutes. And sometimes I feel that people is very curious about what happened before the 90 minutes, what happened after the 90 minutes. But it’s also part of, I think it’s also part of the magic of football. When you see an amazing movie normally the producers, they let you have the little trailers, but they don’t let you, they don’t let you follow everything. They don’t open the door, I believe in Hollywood or in the places where they are doing the moves, they don’t open the doors and say to the people, okay, come on, follow this every minute of this. Day by day of this. In football, a little bit the same. We understand the evolution, we understand the social media, we understand that we have to catch people. So step by step we open the dressing room, we open a training session. But in some moments of the training session, I have to say to the cameraman, get out. This period now, there are no cameras. But this is the logic, it is the logic of things.

Yevhen Krazhan: So it’s still a game of people for people. And speaking of the players, you mentioned that the conversations are non stop. Have you actually learned, were cases where you learned actually from players?

José Mourinho: Oh, all the time. All the time, football-wise, all the time. Because I always like great communication with the players. So many times I tell the players, this is my idea for this game, this is my strategy, the way I analyze with my assistants, this is the way we want to play. But more important than the way I want to play is what you feel. Do you feel you can do this for me? Do you feel that the tasks I’m giving to you you can deliver? If not give me your opinion. So there is always what I used to call, you know, discovery, guiding. We discover together. We try to reach the ideal situation where the coach is happy, the coach is comfortable, but the player is also comfortable. I don’t think it works when a player does something and he doesn’t believe. So I think it’s very important between the leader and the ones that, let’s say represent the leader on the pitch, I think is very important.

Yevhen Krazhan: This empathy, especially working probably with champions that have already achieved a lot, to find that little room for additional sort of potential is extremely difficult. And I think your special talent is really working with the high profile players and still find the common language, which I think is the talent of coaching.

José Mourinho: I think the beginning of everything is that at that level is more about creating a team and not to try to disturb much the top players that you have at your disposal. Okay. To win, we need to work together. We need to play for each other, we need to sacrifice for each other. This is one thing. Another thing is to be always on the players ears. This is not right. This is not right. You have to do this, you have to do that. You know, I’m not going to tell players of this level how to kick a ball, how to head a ball. It’s more about the collective work than the individual feedback. It’s different to coach the best players than to coach average players. Is completely a different style of coaching.

Yevhen Krazhan: And I believe the personalities you coach are also quite, I would say complex and individual.

José Mourinho: Yeah, a person is a person. You know, I have only two kids, one man and one woman in this moment, but even two, same mom, same dad, they are different. So 25 boys, 25 young men, they are all different. They have different personalities, have different education. In this moment, the way the world is, the football is many of them, different religions, you know, it’s everything, they are different. There are a base of things that applies to everybody. But then you have to deal individually. Even the way you feedback the players, there are different ways to do it, different perceptions. What is the best way to get the best out of this player? Like one of my good teachers in university, he was saying, you don’t coach football players, you coach men. Then the man is a football player, but he’s a man, a young man in this case. So this human side of the job is very important.

Yevhen Krazhan: Just like we build normal friendships like people, like human beings. Right. You connect, you build on top and then you definitely give up a little bit of something that maybe just to connect this bond.

José Mourinho: To create trust.

Yevhen Krazhan: Exactly. That creates trust.

José Mourinho: I never believed in it when I started, and I started more than 20 years ago now. Of course, I even believe less, which is the power comes from the status. I don’t believe it, I don’t believe. I don’t believe the power comes from. They see in you a guy that is good at what he does. They see in you a guy that can help them. They see in you a guy they can trust. Not the guy that is older than you or has the status of being the head coach or the manager or whatever it is. I don’t believe in this.

Yevhen Krazhan: Yeah, trust I believe is always mutual. If they see trust that you show to them and give them some freedom and some room. And listen, I think this is where definitely they will be very much excited to actually give you that chance, to actually move them forward.

José Mourinho: Don’t betray me. When I say don’t betray me, I’m speaking, of course, about football. Don’t betray me and I will be always there for you. Doesn’t matter.

Yevhen Krazhan: Do my best. And maybe even beyond, because this is the top level of football, where probably everybody’s physically fit, everybody knows the drill, but, you know, it’s a game.

José Mourinho: Yeah, but you are a football player 24 hours per day. That’s the point too. You train two, three hours a day, but you are a football player 24 hours per day. So everything reflects the job. What you eat when you are not in the club, what you drink when you are not in the club, how do you sleep when you are not in the club, even things in your private life, you know, Unfortunately, a football player cannot ski in the mountain, cannot ride a bike if he does that, and he does that even hiding from the club.

Yevhen Krazhan: So it’s a contractual limitation, correct?

José Mourinho: I don’t care about the contract. I care about the way you look to your job. You fall in a bike, you don’t play three matches, maybe, or maybe worse, maybe you break a leg, maybe you just do bruising, but the bruising stops you to be on the top, you have a group of friends, you are a young guy, you are single, you are 22, 23 year old, your friends go to the nightclub Wednesday night, Thursday night, Friday night, you cannot go. You can only go the night after the game, if you don’t have a match after three days, and that can happen. 

So there are a lot of things you have to give up to be a football player. But in the end, the career is short. When you are, let’s say, an average of 35, then you have many years to enjoy your life in a different way. But football in the end is not a job, it’s a way of living. If you feel it’s a hobby, you are dead. If you feel you are a football player, just a couple of hours per day, you don’t reach the top. So in the end of the day, it’s a way of living. I recently watched Rafa Nadal documentary. Of course he’s not a football player. He was, of course, an incredible sportsman. It’s amazing what he gave up. It’s amazing the sacrifices he made to have this career. In the end, there is always a relation between what you achieve and what you give to achieve.

Yevhen Krazhan: Were there cases when, for instance, a player would break a rule, but that breaking a rule caused a good result.

José Mourinho: If you remember any, there are rules and rules. There are rules that are not negotiable. And there are rules where I love the players to break. I try to explain, if you have to report at 9 o’, clock, 9 o’ clock is for everybody. And if you arrive 9:15, even if you are the superstar, you just can’t. I don’t accept, I don’t accept that you break that simple rule. But in the game, during the game, one guy that, because of his talent, because of his creativity, because of his feeling, breaks the rule and risks trying something different happens to me the same. I prepare a game with my assistants, with my analysts. We try to reduce all the unpredictability of the game. I try to have, okay, it’s going to be like this. If we are winning, I’m going to do this. If we are losing, I’m going to do that. And certainly in the middle of the game, I don’t care about the analysts, I don’t care about the assistants. I just had a feeling to do this and I do it, I do it. And if in the end the result is not the result I want, I don’t blame myself because I did it for the team. I did it because I had the feeling was better. So this kind of break the rules, let’s say gambling a little bit about the structure, about the idea. If you feel that you do it because you had a feeling, sometimes you can even feel that you had an inspiration from above. I had things that I did sometimes. And then after the game, I start thinking what this, what I did that. And when it results in an amazing way, you just feel, wow, the man above, he kicked me to do this. So I believe a player on the pitch even more. So for me, rules, non-negotiable rules, are outside the pitch. On the pitch, break the rules.

Yevhen Krazhan: We are still human beings. And sometimes, you know, the higher voice and some higher power could give us this intuition which we cannot explain. But sometimes we do things.

José Mourinho: Football players, they are artists. I believe that everyone that reach a certain level doesn’t matter which area is, is somebody with special talents. You know, in every area, in every industry, in every job, in every art, cinema, theater, anything. When you reach a certain level, it’s not just about your formation, your academic formation, what you learn in uni, you have gifts that probably was God that gave you. So go with it, go with the feeling.

Yevhen Krazhan: So, Jose, this little game that I invite you to Play is about control or no control. There are some things in life and our work that we have control, but there are some things that we have little control over. So we have a few examples. I will just ask a short statement, and then you will say I have control or there is no control. So can you control the opponent’s tactics?

José Mourinho: I can try to predict what they are going to do. I can fail and still adapt during the game to try to control. But sometimes I lose, sometimes I can’t control. They are better than me.

Yevhen Krazhan: What about players confidence? Your player confidence, can you control it?

José Mourinho: No. I try to give them tools to build confidence. One of the things that I believe gives them confidence is the fact that they know what I want them to do as a base. Another thing is to give them some freedom to express themselves. Another thing is they know that I am with them in the mistake. I will not let them alone if the mistake happen. So I think these are tools that make a player stronger and more confident, but at the same time they are individuals. And sometimes there are things that I can’t interfere with and I can’t help them. You know, if at a certain moment, for example, our own fans, our own stadium is not happy with the player, they make the player feel they are not happy with them. Some players, they react with a lot of strength. Other players, they collapse. Other players, they progressively lose confidence.

Yevhen Krazhan: It’s a huge pressure.

José Mourinho: It’s a huge pressure. So I can help them, but definitely I cannot control.

Yevhen Krazhan: So the next simple one is the superstar ego. Can you control it or not?

José Mourinho: What I really call a superstar, they are never a problem with ego because the ones that create problems with their ego, they are not superstars for me. A superstar for me is the complete package. And the complete package has one part in relation to their personality, where the ego is proportional to their talent. But there is a moment where they know that is enough, when they don’t know that is enough and they want to go above that line, they are not superstars for me.

Yevhen Krazhan: So the next one is the change room chemistry. Can you control it?

José Mourinho: I can’t control totally. I can help and I feel responsibilities on it. I think it’s a little bit the same at home. Families with two kids, three kids, four kids. Are they going to fight? I believe so. Do they love them? They have to. The father and the mother, they can’t control totally, but they have responsibilities. In football is the same. The coach, the assistant coaches, you know, all the people in the dressing room, the people with different responsibilities. We have responsibilities, but control, absolute control? No, not at all. But it’s also a form of control. When there are problems and you resolve them and you go over it and you have a problem that lasts two days, three days, four days. But we are always going to be back to the normality. And the normality is what you have to build.

Yevhen Krazhan: So, Jose, the next three are fairly simple. The press conference, can you control it?

José Mourinho: Yeah, I think I can. I cannot control the questions; it’s open. The questions are not selected. I don’t know the questions. You don’t know what is coming. So you don’t have control on it. But then you have control on your emotion. You have control in what you want to say and you don’t want to say. So I played 1,300 matches, so that means one press conference before and one after. So minimum 2600 press conferences. If you ask me. You kept control in all of them? No, but I would say minimal. The ones are the ones that went viral. The ones that went viral because I told something that I shouldn’t, I had a reaction that I shouldn’t. That are the ones that went viral. But in 2600, if 20 went viral, I had an amazing control.

Yevhen Krazhan: So the next one, Jose, is your weekly schedule. Can you control it?

José Mourinho: Yeah, I can control. I think of course about what is the best for the players. And I organize the training sessions in a way that I think is the best for the players and for the team. I do one thing since I started and I’m not going to change, which is the organization is not going to change because of the results. If we win, if we lose is the same. I don’t change. Why I don’t change because I gave so many hours to establish what I think is the best for the players. I’ve contacted with all the staff, with the medical staff, with the sports science people. I had meetings to decide what is the schedule is not because one ball hit the post and another ball went inside, we win or we don’t win that I’m going to change. So this is an important base for me. And of course, the job is very, very important. 

Family, of course, is more important than the job. No doubts. But family knows that the job becomes a big responsibility. And of course, sometimes I would like to have more time to the family. Sometimes I’m missing a birthday, sometimes I’m missing an important family moment. Sometimes I would love to be with them, and I’m not. But the responsibility of the job comes above. Then, I don’t have hobbies. I know that I am quiet, boring on that, but I don’t have jobs. There is nothing that I would say, I would love to play golf. I would like to go with some friends to play some padel. I don’t have hobbies.

Yevhen Krazhan: It gives you very little room for anything else.

José Mourinho: Yeah, but doesn’t give me frustration.

Yevhen Krazhan: Exactly.

José Mourinho: Because there is nothing that I regret. Oh, I’m not going to play golf. Oh, I’m not going to ride a bike. No. Doesn’t give me frustration.

Yevhen Krazhan: And the last one in this game is about can you control how much or whether you drink your special one wine. Can you control.

José Mourinho: You know, my answer is going to be commercially very bad. But I promise you, I didn’t even taste it. So if you ask me if it is good, amazing or bad, I cannot answer you. I would say amazing, buy it. But I cannot say. I didn’t taste, I didn’t drink, I don’t know.

Yevhen Krazhan: So, Jose, we have really enjoyed this ride, but there are a few things that maybe our viewers would like to hear from you. Of course, this is inspiration for the young ones. What is the one thing that they should keep in mind all their life?

José Mourinho: Love it. Because sometimes people ask me, oh, a lot of pressure. Oh, before that game. Oh, that week, you play three big matches in the same week. If you don’t love it, you are in trouble. I have many of my former players that they become coaches and when they start, I have always one question for them. Do you love it? Luck is much more difficult than to play football. Do you love it? Yes, I love it. I love it. Go with everything. Ah, I don’t know, boss. How can you do it for 20 years? I’m on my second year. How can you do it? Oh, give up, my friends. If you are tired on the second year, give up. So I think is very important you don’t feel older, you don’t feel tired, you love it. And I’m speaking about football. I think I’m speaking about any other job. To reach the top and especially to stay in the top, you must love it. When you love it, the pressure is not the same, is much less or you don’t feel it, you enjoy it. You wake up in the morning, you are happy to wake up, you are happy to go. When you don’t really enjoy it is more difficult.

Yevhen Krazhan: Thank you, Jose, for these extensive answers. I think everybody would really enjoy. But maybe there are still things that we can cover. For instance, when was the time that you realize football is my main thing? I Love it. I spend all my time. This is the source of everything. But one day you also realized when that day has come that you are very famous, you are a celebrity. When and how did this happen?

José Mourinho: I think it happened progressively. I cannot identify a moment. But is that stamp that changed your life and is that stamp of the celebrity or that stamp of the guy that walks in the street and everybody recognize and everybody knows who he is? Is the part of it that if I could I would take away from my life. It’s the part of the job, is something that is connected with the job that I don’t enjoy. I don’t enjoy. I am in a restaurant, I have to shake hands with people. I go in the street, I have to stop 10 times to do 100 autographs or 100 pictures. 

But I say that and you have to respect it. I’m not perfect. I’m not saying that. I stop every time I take the picture, every time. I am nice to the people that is chasing me with the camera. I’m not nice all the time. But the majority of the time I try to understand, then the things that I do outside football. This partnership with you, the partnership with the sports brand, these kind of things that I have parallel to football. I have to be honest, I enjoy it maybe becomes the kind of hobby that I don’t have. You know, in this moment, if I was not spending one hour in the car with you, I would probably be still in my office looking at some player or at some football match or looking again to the training session that we had this morning. So it’s good.

Yevhen Krazhan: So, Jose, appreciation from my team, from our industry for this wonderful interview. You have still a lot of challenges. I know you are a person that likes these things. You love the football, you love your teams and you are very capable of bringing any team to the top notch level. And I think what we have tried to uncover today is something about you. A little bit personal stuff. I know you, you don’t like to let a lot of people inside of your maybe personal life. But really, really. Thank you.

José Mourinho: That was not invasive.

Yevhen Krazhan: Not invasive, no. And we really enjoyed. And maybe next month we will see each other. Maybe our roads cross.

José Mourinho: Let’s go.

Yevhen Krazhan: Maybe Lisbon, maybe conferences. It would be my pleasure.

José Mourinho: Let’s go speak again. Thanks so much.