Pierre Lindh on iGaming, Prediction Markets & the Power of Connections

Yevhen Krazhan: The man behind the iGaming industry’s toughest questions. My dear guest today is Pierre Lindh, Next.io co-founder. 

You are very much into the network. You probably know everybody in this industry. Are those connections are only business or you do have some good, real friends?

Pierre Lindh: I have a lot of friends at the shows, you know, and I love being at the events. I love catching up with everyone. And usually the conversations that I enjoy the most tend to be not so much about business, but more about, you know, what happened since last time and catching up about life, how things are going. This is my life, you know what I mean? This is how I grew up in these events. And it is very much who I am.

Yevhen Krazhan: Sometimes you get too close to people, but then some news would, you know, break the market. And you have to be very open and not always news are positive. There are some things that are very resonating. How do you cope with that?

Pierre Lindh: Yeah, yeah. That’s a difficult balance because we have an editorial team at Next.io who is separated from the rest of the business. So we have a kind of firewall, you could say, between the editorial team and the shareholders. Me, the rest of the business. Who do people contact? The journalist? No, they contact me. And I am the one who sometimes have to have a lot of these challenging conversations within the industry. People who might not like our reporting or something like that, but we always say the same thing to everyone, really, in that when we work together with partners, with friends and so on, then there’s a greater opportunity to say, influence the reporting. Because if we have partners who are there who are willing to comment or correct our stories or give us more nuance or perspective and so on. That’s always going to be the best middle ground for everyone.

Yevhen Krazhan: I imagine how hard it is to keep that objectivity.

Pierre Lindh: It is very difficult, though. It is very difficult. 

Yevhen Krazhan: But this is what people probably appreciate, because you would never be able to build a reputation if you were not honest or a little bit, you know, inclining towards one of the others. Probably with some lessons learned from the past. Because what we have heard that there were situations where probably the entire community was not perceiving things quite well. You know, maybe looking into this evolution and playtech. A little bit interesting one.

Pierre Lindh: That was a good example. When it’s very difficult to keep the objectivity.

Yevhen Krazhan: Exactly. Taking sides is always dangerous. So I bet, you know, keeping the balance is something that is always an art.

Pierre Lindh: But I mean, that’s an interesting one as well, because people might. People are quick to jump to conclusions. Right. And when they see something and they, I think people are sometimes like a little bit biased to want to see something that might not always be.

Yevhen Krazhan: There. They were like that. And especially now with this instant gratification stuff and people are consuming media and content quickly.

Pierre Lindh: But I can give you some insight there. Like what was interesting with the Playtech Evolution saga. So obviously Playtech had hired this firm to basically write this dossier against Evolution, this damning report that caused a lot of damage for Evolution’s share price. And obviously Evolution dedicated themselves for years to find out who were behind this dossier. Turned out to be Playtech. Right. And when that story broke, we were the ones that dug into the court case and found that story. Right. And so what happens before publication? Well, the account manager, let’s say, of Playtech, is very nervous. Oh my God, we’re going to lose this account. And maybe. Are you sure you’re going to publish a story? And it’s separation between church and state. Our editorial team works really in that regard. But the truth was that Playtech on a commercial level were a bigger partner to us than Evolution, for example. So it was not really that we had an incentive to write the story one way or the other. That is just how the story was developed. Now we are very sensitive as well. We will reach out to Playtech, we’ll let them know that the story is coming, we’ll talk to them, we’ll give them a lot of space and opportunity to give their side of things and to give them the space they need and so on. And usually that is the middle ground. Partners are pretty understanding most of the time that the work of the journalist is up to them. And even in Playtech case on this side, they were great throughout this whole process. To be honest, understanding of this news needs to be written and being there to answer questions when needed.

Yevhen Krazhan: I hope you guys continue to stay partners, friends and humans after all of these things that sometimes happen unexpectedly. But  at the end of the, you know, it’s really.

Pierre Lindh: Very rare that it breaks friendships.

Yevhen Krazhan: This little section is more, you know, to energize.

Pierre Lindh: All right.

Yevhen Krazhan: So these are very short questions that you probably have to answer. You know, say a name. Right. It’s really about the people that you know.

Pierre Lindh: Okay, let’s go.

Yevhen Krazhan: So, Pierre, imagine you need 1 million by tomorrow. Is there a person you could call and who is that person?

Pierre Lindh: I would like to say Anna, my CEO, because he is the one who actually holds our finances. But I would say, I would say Tim Heath, our major shareholder, YOLO Investment. He’d be the one who take that fast, like way too fast decision to spend a million and it would end up being the right decision.

Yevhen Krazhan: So Pierre, imagine there is a restaurant that you cannot book a table, but you need a table tomorrow. Is there a person you could call? And who is that?

Pierre Lindh: So the person who knows everyone that would be Robin Reed. I would call a famous investor. He has like his pay dial to book anything at any time anywhere in the world. He will be the man.

Yevhen Krazhan: Ricky Martin, if you want to dance to his songs. Who do you call to find that occasion?

Pierre Lindh: I will call David Natrushvili of Scribe and he will call Ricky Martin for me.

Yevhen Krazhan: The right person, the right Ricky. The next question is a little bit broad. We were touching it slightly. So there are companies that you report to, you basically write about that. But if somebody from these companies would ask you not to do something, will you be able to do that?

Pierre Lindh: I mean, we really try our absolute best to not be pulled in any direction or another to say what we can and cannot do. It hasn’t happened in five years time that someone has told us don’t do this and we don’t do it. Even we’ve had our own shareholders that have been in the kind of line of fire. And we’ve had calls from our shareholders also. But even they are never asking us to take something down. They would be upset at us because maybe a detail in the story is not correct or something like this.

Yevhen Krazhan: Or something that they would like to be portrayed in a different way?

Pierre Lindh: Yeah. And they will ask to correct that and then we will have a conversation whether we can do that. But in five years since we started reporting, we’ve never been asked by a partner to take something down specifically like this. And we’ve done it, to be honest.

Yevhen Krazhan: The next one is also interesting, very trendy. It’s about NextPredict prediction markets. I think nobody before you has done a very dedicated standalone product or media platform for that. And you went even further. You took it to the US, to New York. Tell us a little bit more why there is so much focus and attention specifically to that.

Pierre Lindh: Every year there is a new trend in the industry. Last year we came to New York at our online gambling event there and everyone was talking about sweepstakes. Now a year forward, everyone is talking about prediction markets. And I came into that event wondering, is this used another trend in the industry? Is this used an alternative to sports betting or is there something more to it? And the answer at that event in March was that this is something completely different than what we’ve seen in the past with trends. This is not just a vertical of igaming or alternative to sports betting. This is its own industry. That was our realization at the beginning of the year. And off the back of that, we quickly decided to jump full force to this because we’ve seen how the conference and media landscape have been expanding in the igaming industry. And ultimately when this new industry is being born, we expect that there will be a similar ecosystem that is being born out of that in trade, media and conferences. And the thing with conferences are that when you establish the world leading conference early, you have a massive advantage. People tend to gravitate towards that event. So that’s why we went further force. We threw everything but the kitchen sink to launch NextPredict and the event which usually takes around two years to organize from idea to event, we compressed that into eight months. We launched a new brand into this new industry without any contact, without people knowing who we are. And in a short space of time, we established ourselves as the global dominant leader in the prediction market space. We have every brand that you can imagine now attending the event in New York. And it’s been an incredible ride going outside of the gaming industry in this new, very, very hyped space.

Yevhen Krazhan: Well, personally, I think prediction markets is far bigger than sweepstakes.

Pierre Lindh: Oh yeah yeah. It’s completely different level. Oh my God. It’s a whole another level.

Yevhen Krazhan: But do you think there will be a lot of synergies between sports and prediction markets?

Pierre Lindh: Yeah. I mean today what is driving the volumes in Kalshi and Polymarket, 90% is sports contracts. So it’s undeniable that there is a very strong link between sports betting and what the prediction markets industry is, what they have given rise to. And this was also the question we went into in this year. Now I think the difference is that there is a different level of opportunity outside of sports for the prediction markets industry as well. And that is what we are seeing now driving the valuations of Kalshi and Polymarket. Kalshi now raising capital at $40 billion. I mean, the biggest online gambling company in our whole industry is Flutter and they are floating at around, what is it, $18 billion or something like that. So it’s a double.

In two years, Kalshi has basically gotten themselves to a point when they are worth twice as much as the most valuable gambling company on earth. And that will tell you something very important, which is investors. Whether they are right or wrong, okay, this is yet to be seen. They are betting on a different future or a bigger future than only sports, let’s say for prediction markets industry. Sports will always be a massive part of this industry. Let’s see how it goes in the Supreme Court, eventually in the US because that’s going to target the sports contract, whether they are classified as sports betting or whether they are a financial instrument. But nonetheless, the prediction market space has already proven that it can bring a whole other level of interest and width to it. So, yeah, a lot of crossover, especially right now. And those companies that come from gambling into prediction markets now have a really, really strong opportunity to establish all the knowledge that we’ve learned over the last 20 years in building sportsbook, you know, driving engagement for players. All the things we have all that knowledge to start and become successful in prediction markets. And then we can learn along the way what it means to expand those opportunities for bettors or traders in those space.

Yevhen Krazhan: We have another, a little bit of a playful part. It’s called Confess or Call.

I will give you a question. If you can answer it, you answer it. If you don’t want to answer it, you will take the iPad. And you will roll the wheel of fortune.

Pierre Lindh: Okay.

Yevhen Krazhan: You will get a little bit of a prank call. Surprise. Was there a situation where somebody called you to stop the story from being, you know, exposed to actually stop it? And who was that person?

Pierre Lindh: I’m gonna spin the wheel. All right, let’s. It says, oh, Beyonce. Oh, my goodness. What is this? Tell your team that. Oh, my God, here we go. Tell your team that you managed to book Beyonce to perform at NextPredict New York. They have to source and confirm a white horse for backstage by the end of the day. It’s a non-negotiable part of it. We need a white horse at the backstage and our conference venue is on the 21st floor in New York. Yeah. So. Okay. Good luck.

Yevhen Krazhan: Because Beyonce agreed.

Pierre Lindh: Hey.

Gerda: Hello.

Pierre Lindh: Hey. Hey, how are you? Good. Listen, we have like something super, super last minute now for NextPredict New York. Yeah. You hold your breath. No. Gotta hold your breath. Or take a deep breath. Take a deep breath because Nick, he was speaking with the manager of Beyonce and she agreed to perform at the next week New York, like during the week. But we need to source a white horse at its super last minute. You get the team on. Is that okay? 

Gerda: Yeah, of course it’s okay. I’ll fly the horse, no problem.

Pierre Lindh: You’re amazing, Gerda. You’re amazing. I have no doubt we can make it happen. I’ll call you back in a little bit, okay? To confirm 100%. I’ll let them know. All right. Okay, thanks, Gerda. Bye.

Yevhen Krazhan: My God.

Pierre Lindh: Welcome to our team. Yeah, welcome to our team.

Yevhen Krazhan: Pierre, we know that you are not only a party beast and animal, you are also great into sports, into super marathon marathons, great runs, Ironmans. Are you still trying to keep up? You know, parties and running in the morning. Will you maybe be doing some jogging in the morning tomorrow after the long parties?

Pierre Lindh: Well, you know, you can combine the two. Every time we go to a party, you wake up next day and you’re like, oh, I had 20,000 steps yesterday. So you kind of get your run in the nightclub. You know, you gotta. Gotta combine the two. You know, when we’re so busy, you gotta compress things. 

Yevhen Krazhan: Much better than sitting in the office or at home, you know, watching the screen.

Pierre Lindh: To be honest with you, I went to the gym yesterday and I bought a weekly membership because at least I did it. And then if it’s gonna be used, I don’t know. But it feels good knowing that you have. You have the membership. If needed.

Yevhen Krazhan: You can use the pool and maybe sauna and relax a little bit.

Pierre Lindh: Yes.

Yevhen Krazhan: Is it something more, I think, your new passion, or is just, you know, a fashionable thing that will boost, I don’t know, something. I don’t know, career? What is it? Where did it come from?

Pierre Lindh: Now, the running and the kind of entrepreneurship in that regard, like building the company, there is a lot of synergies between the two. First and foremost, it can be quite lonely. It’s building a company and the same. I like to run alone. I go out by myself. I go in my own thoughts and in my own pace. And I do it from that perspective. Secondly, you know, building a company is a marathon and not a sprint. As I say, really and truly, it is both. You have to sprint and do a marathon at the same time. But I think also it’s one of those things where, you know, it is ups and downs. There are some difficult days, there are some better days. And the running is always a way for me to escape everything.

Yevhen Krazhan: Pierre, let me thank you. I think it was a light very informative at the same time, little conversation. Hope you enjoyed it.

Pierre Lindh: Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you. Well done for doing all of this. And it’s an honor to be here.

Yevhen Krazhan: Thank you, Pierre.